The trading web site www.balmain.com (hereinafter referred to as the “Site”) is an electronic commerce site accessible on the Internet network, open to all users of that network (hereinafter referred to as “Surfers”). It is published by Pierre Balmain SAS, a French limited company with a capital of 1,403,470 Euros, having its registered office 44, Rue François 1er – 75 008 PARIS, and entered in the Paris Trade and Companies Register under no. B 582054862.
The Site enables Pierre Balmain to sell textile products and accessories manufactured for Pierre Balmain or any of its sales partners (hereinafter referred to as the "Products") to Surfers navigating on its Site (hereinafter referred to as the “Customers”). For the application of the conditions herein, it is hereby agreed that the Customer and Pierre Balmain shall be collectively termed the Parties and individually termed the Party.
It is herein stipulated that any purchases made of Products on the site are reserved for non-trading natural persons, in their capacity as consumers aged over 18 and having full legal capacity.
The site does not permit the purchase of products with a view to their resale. More specifically, the site may not be used by our Customers for any commercial purposes such as purchasing for resale and is limited to customers' own personal consumption. In this respect, Customers' attention is particularly drawn to the fact that their orders may not exceed 15 items per order and should not be of an abnormal nature. Any orders placed for a Product for sale on the Site implies the Customer's unreserved acceptance of these General Terms and Conditions of Sale.
Pierre Balmain reserves the right to modify these General Terms and Conditions of Sale at any time by publishing a new version thereof on the Site. The General Terms and Conditions of Sale applicable are those in force on the Site at the date on which the order is placed.
These General Terms and Conditions of Sale govern the rights and obligations of the Parties arising from the online sale of Products on offer on the Site. They form a contractual whole together with the detailed order form and the invoice sent to the Customer and apply to the exclusion of any other documents. In the event of any contradiction or discrepancy between the terms of these three documents, the documents shall prevail in the order of priority stated below:
Only the Products featured on the Site at the date of the Customer's visit to the Site are offered for sale. To this end, Customers are informed at the time of placing their orders of the availability of the Products they wish to select. Should Customers have any questions regarding the unavailability of any Products, they may contact the Customer Service department by clicking on "Contact Customer Service department". If, however, the Product exceptionally becomes unavailable after validation of the order, the Customer shall be informed thereof by electronic mail, within six (6) days at the very latest following validation of the order.
The photographs illustrating the Products offered for sale are as accurate a reproduction as possible, but have no contractual value. Customers are invited to consult the description of each Product to discover the main features.
Prices are stated in Euros inclusive of taxes, and excluding preparation and delivery charges. Value Added Tax is the tax in force on French mainland territory at the date of the order. This tax is also applicable within the European Union (EU). The prices applied are those stated on the Site at the time of the order.
The flat-rate amount charged for preparation and delivery is communicated to the Customer on the detailed order form, prior to its validation.
Any new Customers placing an order are required to complete the fields with their details in order to create a profile, which is subsequently accessible under the section "My Account". Customers are required to complete the form provided accurately, mentioning all the information enabling their identification, in particular a valid e-mail address and a password of their choice (which shall remain personal and confidential to the Customer) and which shall subsequently serve to identify them on the Site. Any Customers having already created a Customer Account are required to identify themselves after clicking on "Complete your order", by entering their e-mail address and their password.
Customers shall agree that the act of entering both identifiers constitutes valid proof of their identity.
It is compulsory to supply personal details marked with an asterisk, which are collected in the context of mail order sales, said details being necessary for the processing and delivery of orders and for the preparation of invoices. This information is strictly confidential and shall be processed in compliance with the Pierre Balmain confidentiality policy, which may be consulted on the Site.
Any Customers wishing to place an order may simply select the Product(s) of their choice by clicking on "Add to my basket".
At any time the Customer may:
At the end of this first stage, a statement appears on the screen which corresponds to the detailed order form. On this page, customers are able to modify the information entered by clicking on "Modify your order". This page displays:
After reading the detailed order form, Customers can only access the following stage if they have read the General Terms and Conditions of Sale, which they confirm by checking the box provided for the purpose.
After reading the detailed order form, Customers click on "Pay for your order" to confirm their order and proceed with payment.
The act of validating the detailed order form and proceeding with immediate payment constitute the Customer's agreement. Said agreement is equivalent to the handwritten signature and is proof of the conclusion of a contract between the Parties, for the totality of the order and the payability of the sums due in fulfilment of said order.
Pierre Balmain reserves the right not to validate an order in the event of:
The price due by Customers is the amount stated on the detailed order form, which Customers read before validating their order.
Customers shall pay for their order by banker's card (Visa, Eurocard/Mastercard/American Express) in accordance with the provisions of this article. In order to pay for their order by banker's card, Customers are required to provide their bank card number and, depending on the type of card used, the expiry date, as well as the security code (a 3-digit number printed on the back of their card).
The card is debited at the time the order is validated on the Site, unless the server is unavailable.
It is stipulated herein that in order to make their payment by banker's card, Customers are automatically transferred to the ADYEN secure payment system.
The ADYEN server uses SSL 3.0 (Secure Socket Layer) software to protect all data related to the means of payment used. ADYEN monitors its platform and the operations submitted thereto 24/7. It is herein stipulated that at no time do your banking details transit through the Pierre Balmain computer system.
However, if fraudulent use has been made of their banker's card, Customers are invited, as soon as they discover such use and after notifying their bank to stop the payment, to contact the Customer Service department for details of the relevant Pierre Balmain procedure, by calling the following number: 33 (0) 1 47 20 78 55 from Monday to Friday between 9 a.m. and 7 p.m. or by sending an e-mail to the following address: email@example.com
Should a Product become unavailable after the order has been validated, as specified in article 2.1. above, if payment has already been made, the Customer may choose either a refund for the amount of the order, which shall be made immediately or at the very latest within fourteen (14) days following payment of the order, or a replacement Product of an equivalent quality and price.
Following payment, Pierre Balmain sends the Customer a statement summarising the details of the order by electronic mail to the e-mail address stated by the Customer, either immediately or at the very latest prior to delivery.
Said statement constitutes advice of receipt of the Customer's order and contains all the contractual terms binding the Parties. The order form is recorded in Pierre Balmain's files, which are preserved on reliable, durable media. The Customer accepts the fact that the order form is deemed proof of the contractual relations maintained between the Parties.
The Customer may print out the detailed order form sent with said advice of receipt. A summary of the order shall also be accessible in "My Account".
Pierre Balmain shall make its best efforts to ensure that the order is delivered, together with the supporting invoice, within an average of four (4) to five (5) working days and undertakes in any event to deliver within a maximum of ten (10) working days as of the day following receipt of payment for the order. It is specified herein that any orders recorded on the Site on Friday afternoon after 1 p.m., or on Saturday or Sunday, shall be processed on the following Monday. Any orders recorded on the Site on a national holiday shall be processed on the next working day.
The Products ordered by the Customer shall be delivered to the address stated by the Customer, together with the delivery note. Customers may choose to have the Products delivered to an address other than their own.
Delivery may not be possible in the event of a case of force majeure as defined in article 10.1 hereinafter.
On receipt of the order, it falls to Customers to check the conformity of the Products received in fulfilment of their order. Any anomalies regarding the delivery (namely missing or damaged Products, Products not compliant with the order, damaged parcel, etc.) must be notified at the time of receipt to the carrier and within fourteen (14) days following receipt to the Pierre Balmain Customer Service department, by one of the following means:
Unless a legitimate reason is provided, any claim made after the fourteen (14) days following receipt of the Products shall be inadmissible. In the event of any improper or fraudulent claims, Pierre Balmain may refuse to process any subsequent orders.
Customers may choose either a replacement Product (or Products) as per their order or a refund of the price of the order, at the very latest within fourteen (14) days of notifying the anomaly to the Pierre Balmain Customer Service department.
Pierre Balmain reserves the right to ask the Customer to return the non-compliant or damaged Product.
Customers have fourteen (14) working days as of the date of receipt within which to return the Products they ordered, at their own expense and without the need for justification. To qualify for return, Products must be unused. Products must be returned in their original condition and packaging to the following address : PIERRE BALMAIN E-BOUTIQUE, 44 rue Francois 1er, 75008 PARIS FRANCE along with the invoice and the delivery note.
If the above-mentioned conditions are fulfilled, Pierre Balmain will refund the Customer, by cheque or bank transfer, the total amount of the order (excluding delivery costs) within fourteen (14) days following receipt of the Products by Pierre Balmain, but excluding the cost of the Products' return, for which the Customer will be responsible.
All Products are covered by the legal guarantee of conformity provided in Articles L. 211-4 ff. of the French Consumer Code, and the guarantee against hidden defects provided in Articles 1641 ff. of the French Civil Code, providing that normal usage has been made of them and cleaning recommendations have been properly followed.
Article L.211-4 of the French Consumer Code
The seller is required to deliver goods that comply with the contract, and is responsible for any defects in conformity that exist when they are delivered. The seller is also responsible for defects in conformity that result from packaging, or from the instructions for set-up or installation when the seller is responsible for same, or these are performed under its responsibility.
Article L.211-5 of the French Consumer Code.
To comply with the contract, the goods must:
1º Be suitable for the use ordinarily expected of similar goods and, if relevant:
- correspond to the description provided by the seller and possess the qualities that the seller presented to the buyer in the form of a sample or a model;
- present the qualities that a buyer could legitimately expect, given the public statements made by the seller, by the producer or by its representative, particularly in any advertising material or on the labelling;
2º Or present the features defined jointly by the parties or be suitable for any special use sought by the user, of which the seller was advised and to which the seller agreed.
Article L.211-12 of the French Consumer Code
Any legal action prompted by lack of conformity is governed by a term of prescription of two years as of delivery of the goods.
Article 1641 of the French Civil Code
The seller must also guarantee the buyer against latent defects in the product sold that make it improper for the use for which it was intended, or diminish such use to the extent that buyers would not have purchased it, or would have paid less, if they had known.
Article 1648 paragraph 1 of the French Civil Code
Any proceedings prompted by the discovery of hidden defects should be instituted by the buyer within two years as from the date at which the defect was discovered.
Pierre Balmain's liability shall in no way be incurred for any inconvenience or damage linked to use of the Internet, such as interruptions in service or the presence of computer viruses.
Customers may call the Customer Service department for details of the relevant procedure to follow on the following number: 33 (0) 1 47 20 78 55 from Monday to Friday between 9 a.m. and 7 p.m. or by sending an e-mail to the following address: firstname.lastname@example.org
In the event of any improper or fraudulent exchanges or returns, Pierre Balmain may refuse to process any subsequent orders.
To qualify for return, Products must be unused. Shoes should be tried on a carpeted surface. Products should be returned in their original condition and packaging to the following address : PIERRE BALMAIN E-BOUTIQUE, 44 rue Francois 1er, 75008 PARIS FRANCE along with the invoice and the delivery note.
It falls to the Customer to retain all proof of return. This implies returning the order by recorded delivery, or by any other means establishing the specific date of its return.
Any Products that are returned in anything other than their original condition and packaging, including if they are incomplete, damaged, worn or soiled by the Customer, shall be refused. If the above-mentioned conditions are fulfilled, Pierre Balmain shall refund the Customer the cost of the returned product(s) at the very latest within fourteen (14) days following receipt thereof by Pierre Balmain. Shipping costs are not refunded for items using our free collection service.
If a discount voucher has been used when placing the order, the amount corresponding to said discount shall be deducted from the refund amount in proportion to the number of items ordered.
In order to make purchases on this Site, Customers are required to create an account and choose an e-mail address and password, which they will be asked for every time they wish to access it. Any personal information concerning a Customer is thus protected by a password to ensure that said Customer, and that Customer alone, has access thereto. Pierre Balmain recommends that Customers do not disclose this information to any third parties.
Customers are also urged to remember to log out from their profile and close the browser window at the end of the session, especially if they are using a computer shared with others for Internet access. Customers will thus prevent other users having access to their personal information. Customers are solely liable for maintaining the confidentiality of their password. Customers alone shall bear the consequences of any use made by third parties having acquired knowledge thereof.
Pierre Balmain may not be held liable for delayed performance, or total or partial non-performance of its obligations in respect of these Terms and Conditions of Sale, if said delay is caused by an event constituting a case of force majeure, namely unforeseeable, irresistible circumstances beyond the control of the Parties, including in the event of disruptions or total or partial strikes, notably on the part of postal services and carrier services and/or communication means, floods or fire. Pierre Balmain shall notify Customers of any event constituting a case of force majeure, at the very latest within five (5) working days of its occurrence.
Pierre Balmain shall make its best efforts to inform Customers, as soon as possible, of the progress of their orders for the duration of said case of force majeure.
In the event where the case of force majeure exceeds one (1) month, the Parties shall be reciprocally released from their obligations. Where applicable, Pierre Balmain shall refund Customers as soon as possible for any orders paid for but undelivered.
Should any of the paragraphs or clauses of these General Terms and Conditions of Sale be declared invalid or unenforceable, the remaining clauses of these General Terms and Conditions of Sale shall continue to have full force and effect, unless the invalidated provision is so fundamental that its withdrawal or cancellation prevents the performance of these General Terms and Conditions of Sale in their entirety.
The fact that Pierre Balmain may refrain from exacting the performance of any of the clauses of these General Terms and Conditions of Sale, or from exercising any right conferred upon it by these General Terms and Condition of Sale, may in no way be deemed a definitive waiver of said right, nor may it prevent Pierre Balmain from seeking the subsequent performance of said clause, such provision being valid for the entire term of said abstention.
Invoices are archived on reliable, durable media so as to serve as a faithful and durable copy.
The terms and conditions governing use of the Pierre Balmain web site set forth the rules relating to the use made by visitors to the web site www.balmain.com (referred to as "the Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site") and may be modified in accordance with article 9 below.
The www.balmain.com web site (the "Site") belongs to and is managed by Pierre Balmain (hereinafter referred to as "Pierre Balmain"), 44 Rue François 1er, 75 008 Paris. Should you have any questions concerning the Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site, please contact the Customer Service Department by e-mail at email@example.com, by telephone on 33 (0) 1 47 20 78 55 from Monday to Friday between 9 a.m. and 7 p.m., or by letter to Pierre Balmain- 44 Rue François 1er, 75 008 Paris.
The Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site set forth the rules applicable to you whenever you use this Site, particularly in the case of online purchases and our newsletter.
The Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site therefore apply to all users of the Site, including Pierre Balmain customers making online purchases and who are bound by the Pierre Balmain General Terms and Conditions of Sale ("General Terms and Conditions of Sale").
Any use you make of the Site will therefore be deemed acceptance of these Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site.
If you have made any purchases on the Site, you can track the status of each of your orders, which are identified by date, number and price incl. VAT. You can also look up the details of each order, namely order date, order number, delivery timeframe, order status, your delivery address, your invoicing address where applicable, the type of product, quantity, size, colour, delivery charge, the cost of gift-wrapping where applicable, and the total price incl. VAT.
You may subscribe to the Pierre Balmain newsletter in order to receive details about the latest news and events at Pierre Balmain (new collections, shows, exclusive designs, etc.).
If you wish to unsubscribe at any time, simply send a letter to the following address: Pierre Balmain e-boutique, 44 Rue François 1er, 75008 Paris- France.
Pierre Balmain hereby informs you that the Site is a protected work. Pierre Balmain holds the copyright for each page constituting this Site, and its structure, as well as all elements featured therein. The Site and all the material within it are therefore protected by copyright: "Copyright © – 2015 – Pierre Balmain – All rights reserved".
Unless otherwise stipulated, the trademarks, logos, drawings, designs, models, photographs, images and, more generally, all other elements featured on the Site, are the exclusive property of Pierre Balmain, or Pierre Balmain has obtained the relevant exploitation rights relating thereto.
Pierre Balmain would remind you that any reproduction, use or modification, in part or in whole, of any element of the Site is strictly prohibited, unless express prior authorisation is obtained from Pierre Balmain.
As a result, Pierre Balmain may institute proceedings, notably on the grounds of infringement, against all those who, directly or indirectly, undermine its rights.
Any messages, information, or content that you send to the Site, via electronic mail or otherwise, shall be treated by Pierre Balmain as non-confidential information and entirely free of rights, except for your Personal Information, in accordance with the Confidentiality Policy. Said messages, information and content notably include any questions, answers, comments, suggestions and other similar messages that you may spontaneously send to the Site.
Any hypertext links directing surfers to secondary pages of the Site are expressly prohibited, other than with the formal authorisation of Pierre Balmain. Moreover, any links should be withdrawn at the simple request of Pierre Balmain.
Pierre Balmain has taken all precautions to ensure both the reliability of information and secure access to its Site, in accordance with the Pierre Balmain confidentiality policy set forth below.
However, use of the Internet implies a knowledge and acceptance of the characteristics and limitations of the Internet, in particular regarding the risks inherent in any connection and transmission of information on the Internet, the lack of protection for certain data against any attempts at hijacking or piracy and the risks of contamination by any viruses on the network. Pierre Balmain's liability may therefore in no way be incurred as regards any inconvenience or damage arising from the use of the Internet, such as an interrupted service, or the presence of computer viruses.
Nor may Pierre Balmain be held liable for any damage linked to misuse of the Site, or an event constituting a force majeure, particularly in the case of disruption or strikes, either total or partial, floods or fire.
Pierre Balmain disclaims all liability relating to the information contained on sites that may be linked to its Site by a hypertext link or any other means. Pierre Balmain hereby informs you that, during your purchases online, the payment page will become invalid after a reasonable time in order to prevent any fraudulent use of your banker's card.
Pierre Balmain reiterates the fact that minors cannot enter into a contract and therefore cannot register with the Site without parental authorisation, in particular to make purchases or receive the newsletter.
Nevertheless, minors may consult the Site and the different services proposed thereon, under the responsibility of their legal representatives and subject to these Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site.
In the event of failure to comply with these Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site, Pierre Balmain reserves the right to unsubscribe you from its Site, by withdrawing your account, either temporarily or definitively, notwithstanding any legal proceedings that Pierre Balmain may institute against you.
Pierre Balmain reserves the right to modify the Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site at any time; as a result, Pierre Balmain invites you to visit its Site regularly to check for changes.
If Pierre Balmain makes any substantial changes, you will be notified by e-mail, or a notice will be posted on the Site's home page. Pierre Balmain urges you to read all changes to the Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site.
The use of the Site following one or more modification(s) will be deemed to equate to your acceptance of said modification(s). If you do not accept any of the modifications, you should immediately cease using the Site, by withdrawing your account, which you can do by contacting our Customer Service department, whose details are stated in the preamble to these Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site, and in particular by deregistering from any services to which you have subscribed.
The modified Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site shall become effective at the date at which you are informed of said modifications.
These Terms and Conditions for Use of the Site are governed by French law. In the event of a dispute, the courts falling within the competence of the Paris Court of Appeal shall have sole jurisdiction. The Parties shall undertake, however, to seek an amicable arrangement before instituting any legal proceedings.
This confidentiality policy sets forth confidentiality practices in the context of your use of the www.balmain.com web site (the "Confidentiality Policy") and may be modified in accordance with article 9 below. The www.balmain.com site (the "Site") belongs to and is managed by Pierre Balmain (hereinafter referred to as "Pierre Balmain"), 44 Rue François 1er, 75 008 Paris.
If you have any questions regarding this Confidentiality Policy, please contact the Customer Service by e-mail at firstname.lastname@example.org, or by writing to Pierre Balmain e-boutique – 44, Rue François 1er – 75 008 Paris.
Pierre Balmain is careful to protect any personal information you submit to it ("Personal Information"). In this context, Pierre Balmain undertakes to treat the Personal Information transmitted thereto as confidential.
This Confidentiality Policy explains: (a) how your Personal Information is used; (b) how you can correct, modify or delete the Personal Information concerning you held by Pierre Balmain; (c) to whom Pierre Balmain may disclose said information; (d) the security measures set up by Pierre Balmain with a view to protecting the confidentiality of your Personal Information and (e) how you can modify your preferences as regards receipt of our newsletters.
Your Personal Information is processed by Pierre Balmain for the purpose of managing its customer and prospective customer relations.
Your Personal Information is accessible at any time under "My Account" via your e-mail address and your password.
In accordance with act no.78-17 of 6th January 1978 relative to data protection, amended by act no. 2004-801 of 6th August 2004 ("Data Protection Act"), you have the right to access, rectify, delete and oppose any personal data concerning you. To exercise this right, you should write to the following address: Pierre Balmain e-boutique, 44 Rue François 1er, 75008 Paris – France.
In accordance with the Data Protection Act, the processing of Personal Information gathered on the Site has been declared under no. 1225721 to the CNIL (French data protection authority).
All Personal Information is sent and stored by the hoster of the Site situated in France, whose contact details are included on the Site under the section "Legal Notices".
Pierre Balmain does not transmit any of your Personal Information to third persons for canvassing purposes.
Pierre Balmain may be required to disclose your Personal Information to legally empowered organisations and authorities, insofar as such disclosure is required or authorised by the law, or whenever Pierre Balmain may deem it necessary or appropriate to satisfy the laws and other applicable statutes, or to protect or defend its rights or those of its employees, customers, or any other persons.
Pierre Balmain may transmit your Personal Information to third parties in the event of sale, transfer of assets, reorganisation or liquidation. Pierre Balmain will notify you if your Personal Information becomes the subject of a different confidentiality policy.
Your Personal Information shall only be stored for the period strictly necessary for the management of customer and prospective customer relations; this period shall under no circumstances exceed one year, save any exceptions stipulated by law.
Pierre Balmain has taken all necessary precautions to ensure the security of its files and the protection of its computer system, and in particular to prevent your Personal Information from being distorted, damaged, or accessed by unauthorised third parties.
When paying by banker's card, you are transferred automatically to the ADYEN secure payment system. The ADYEN server uses SSL 3.0 (Secure Socket Layer) software to protect all data related to the means of payment used. ADYEN monitors its platform and the operations submitted thereto 24/7. It is herein stipulated that at no time do your banking details transit through the Pierre Balmain computer system.
When you create an account, you are required to select an e-mail address and a password, which you will be asked for every time you wish to access it. Your Personal Information is thus protected by a password to ensure that you, and you alone, have access to it. Pierre Balmain recommends that you do not disclose it to anyone.
You should also remember to log out from your profile and close your browser window at the end of your session, especially if you are using a shared computer for Internet access. You will thus prevent other users from accessing your Personal Information. You alone are responsible for preserving the confidentiality of your password. You alone shall bear the consequences arising from its use by third parties who acquire knowledge of it.
If you forget your password, there is a function on the Site that enables you to have your password sent to your mailbox. Likewise, if there is any likelihood that a third party has acquired knowledge of it, you may apply for a new password by clicking on "Modify your details" in the "Personal Information" section of "My Account".
Pierre Balmain reiterates the fact that minors cannot enter into a contract, and that the collection of data from minors requires parental authorisation.
The purchase of products on the Site is strictly reserved for persons aged over 18. Pierre Balmain will not collect and therefore not store Personal Information from persons whom it knows to be aged under 18.
You are free to oppose the registration of cookies by configuring your Internet browser in the following way:
For Mozilla Firefox:
1. Select the "Tools" menu, then "Options"
2. Click on the "Privacy" icon
3. Locate the "Cookies" menu and select the appropriate options
For Microsoft Internet Explorer:
1. Select the "Tool" menu, then "Internet Options"
2. Click on the "Confidentiality" tab
3. Select the desired level using the cursor
For Netscape 6.X and 7.X:
1. Select from the "Edit" menu > "Preferences"
2. Confidentiality and Security
For Opéra 6.0 and above:
1.In the menu, select "File" > "Preferences"
However, you will no longer be able to personalise the service provided to you by Pierre Balmain via its Site.
Some web pages on our Site may contain web tags, which enable us to count the number of visitors to the Site and/or supply Pierre Balmain with a number of indicators.
These web tags may be used by some of our partners, in particular to measure and improve the Site's efficiency.
In all cases, the data obtained via these tags is strictly anonymous and simply permits the gathering of statistics regarding the frequentation rate for certain pages of the Site to enable us to better serve your needs.
Pierre Balmain reserves the right to modify this Confidentiality Policy at any time. As a result, Pierre Balmain would ask you to read it regularly to check for changes.
If Pierre Balmain makes any substantial changes, you will be notified by e-mail or a notice will be posted on the Site's home page. Pierre Balmain urges you to read all changes to the Confidentiality Policy.
If Pierre Balmain is required to use your Personal Information in a different way from that stated on the data collection form, you will be notified by e-mail, and will be free to choose whether or not to allow Pierre Balmain to use your Personal Information in this other way.